Budget : base Greddy turbo.. [Archive] (2024)

maitai92

18th December 2002, 19:51

I've been doing alot of searches about the base turbo and read the FAQ on the Greddy page but for one thing is there actually or anybody here satisfied and happy and stayed with just the base kit 5.5-6 psi kit?

the time finally came and I will be ordering my Greddy pretty soon ( after the holidays ). I notice almost everybody here had upgraded w/ IC, Bipes,higher boost and etc.

i am on very tight budget right now and probably will be installing just the base kit ( without IC or timing devices )
I am just a little worried especially living here in Cali dealing w/ the crappy gas (91 octane)
that this base kit might not work for me. Any base California Greddy out there can tell me your experience and performance w/ the base kit? Thansk in advance...

bvl

18th December 2002, 19:59

there is a difference between budget, frugal, and cheap.

Don't be cheap.

Get some sort of timing device. Bipes is well recommended, and not that expensive.

If you can't afford one, ask yourself: should you really be putting a turbo on the car? If something should go wrong, you really should be in the position to fix it.

Otherwise, why risk things?

Food for thought. A base Greddy, no more then 5 PSI, non intercooled will be fun, but when its hot, and you are running 91 octane, you really want something that can pull timing to prevent detonation. Otherwise you are going to have to set your static timing so low, you will have a 80 HP miata below 3600 RPM.

- b

pReS999

18th December 2002, 21:24

GregAusTex

18th December 2002, 23:21

You can grab a used MSD for $50 or so, worth it.

Here's what seems to be the minimum - fortunately more about doing things right than spending $$$ at 5.5-6 psi

1) Make 2 mainfold cuts between the outer pipes (search for details)
2) Replace the 8 bolts that come with the kit with 8 high quality studs (all the bolts that attach the turbo to the manifold and to the downpipe)
3) Drop $60 on the heatshield sold by flying miata or make one yourself, but address "heat" better than Greddy suggests
4) Strengthen or replace the crossover tube (plastic air intake from turbo to throttle body). Under boost it expands like a balloon and rubs on the alternator. You could spend $50 or so and get a metal one made. I've wondered if maybe wrapping the whole thing up in muffler tape might be an un asthetically displeasing but effective solution
5) Tighten the wastegate down a tad - brings you up to 6 psi and prevents damage

Study www.greddyturbofaqs.com (http://www.greddyturbofaqs.com) before your kit arrives. Read the forum, post questions.

Also, the moment you've got another $250 to spare, buy and install a $50 Saab or RX-7 TII intercooler off of ebay, and $200 worth of pipes off of www.15psi.com. (http://www.15psi.com.) This will increase safety, and probably allow you to crank it up to 8 psi or so (if you've got the MSD).

Good Luck! My kits on order, so I'll be going down this path too.

[ 18. December 2002, 22:22: Message edited by: GregAusTex ]

bvl

18th December 2002, 23:33

Originally posted by GregAusTex:
You can grab a used MSD for $50 or so, worth it.

Here's what seems to be the minimum - fortunately more about doing things right than spending $$$ at 5.5-6 psi

5) Tighten the wastegate down a tad - brings you up to 6 psi and prevents damage

Study www.greddyturbofaqs.com (http://www.greddyturbofaqs.com) before your kit arrives. Read the forum, post questions.

Also, the moment you've got another $250 to spare, buy and install a $50 Saab or RX-7 TII intercooler off of ebay, and $200 worth of pipes off of www.15psi.com. (http://www.15psi.com.) This will increase safety, and probably allow you to crank it up to 8 psi or so (if you've got the MSD).

Good Luck! My kits on order, so I'll be going down this path too.Good advice on the IC of course, however running 6 psi, or even 8 psi on the base Vortech FPR is not conservative, and arguably not very safe.

Running an IC 5-6 PSI is still worth while as you won't have heat soak, and a cooler intake charge overall.

Get the MSD, or a Bipes if you are buying new now.

Next, budget IC.

Next, budget a AFPR such as the BEGI unit. YOu may also need a fuel pump. This is all covered on the greddyturbofaq.com site.

Also: a fuel pressure gauge in the engine bay is not a bad idea for troubleshooting once you turn the boost above 4-5 PSI.

- b

Kawracer

19th December 2002, 00:10

Really the "base kit" is more than Greddy provides if you want reliable, safe power.
I consider a Bipes ACU or MSD w/ Bipes mod and an Intercooler to be a "Base kit".
At first Iran with just the Greddy and Bipes ACU, but that was January at 30*.

Once spring hit, the need for I/C was obvious and it fixed alot of problems with the base kit. The I/C set up replaces the flimsy balooning stock X-over pipe and gives you a place to put a Blow-off valve as well. Spend the money, you'll be better off doing so. Bipes (new is $200) used who knows? I'C can be set up complete for $300 if you shop right. 15psi.com is the way to go.
BOV is about $150. You won't need one right away, but you'll want one soon. Once you have it, you'll wonder why you didn't in the first place.

Matt
Check AIEonline for lowest greddy price. $1184 IIRC.

walrond

19th December 2002, 04:13

Is anyone now considering making their own turbo kit for the 1.6 instead of buying the Greddy? The parts are becoming readily available.
ETD Racing (http://www.etdracing.com/turbo.html) is making manifolds for about $400.00.
Racing Mazda (http://www.racingmazda.com/exhaust/miata/) has downpipes for $230.00.
Flyin Miata (http://www.flyinmiata.com/store/products.asp?dept=41&arrayloc=7&updept=1) has the fuel upgrade kit for $530.00

I don't know how much the Mitsubishi TD04 turbo would cost new or used, but it is widely available on a number of cars. Just for arguments sake, lets say $500.00

Air filters could be had for less than $100.00

Okay, comparing what comes with the GReddy kit these parts come to $1730.00. This is more than the Greddy kit, BUT you would be getting better pieces to begin with. I know I would have gone this way if it had been available to me when I bought my GReddy kit.

Might be something to think about if you are considering a kit. Hmmmm... Ric, why don't you make a kit like this... might prove to be profitable.

GregAusTex

19th December 2002, 09:22

Also: a fuel pressure gauge in the engine bay is not a bad idea for troubleshooting once you turn the boost above 4-5 PSI.

bvl - Interesting. The kit comes stock at 5.5 psi. I didn't even think it could be turned down to 4 psi. Why would you be concerned about using the Vortec at this boost level? I thought it was actually set a little rich for 6 psi.

Walrond - how did the need for an ic become obvious? I've toyed with the idea of running non-intercooled for a little while, and I live in TX. Were you getting detonation? Heat soak?

[ 19. December 2002, 08:25: Message edited by: GregAusTex ]

bvl

19th December 2002, 09:53

The stock actuator on the Greddy may be set variably. My only hands on was installing it with a small IC, so there is a pressure drop across the IC of perhaps 1psi at this boost level, and we needed to tighten the actuator to even get 5psi. From what I have read, some greddys out of the box are set fine, others need tightening.

Each car is different. I agree the kit is setup to run pig rich with the non-adjustable Vortech. But you also my have a not so strong fuel pump along with it, and are running lean. You just don't know that easily. I am trying to help a chap tune his a bit, but his EGTs are very high, and he has yet to hook up his fuel pressure gauge (I am kicking him on that). EGTs are also effected by timing, so there is more to that puzzle then just jumping in and saying for certain its a lean condition.

With little diagnostics people invest in, I don't consider it safe to suggest 5-6 PSI non-intercooled, no timing device on a stock greddy kit.

Now, this does not mean someone using say 1.8 injectors with a healthy fuel pump and a Vortech that has been set on the high side of spec can't run rich at 6 PSI....I am sure it can happen.

However: how do you know you are really running rich? WBO2? EGT gauge? Or just a dirty bumper, dark plugs, and lower fuel economy :D

- b

walrond

19th December 2002, 10:27

bvl - don't forget the new fuel filter. It DOES make a difference.

Walrond - how did the need for an ic become obvious? I've toyed with the idea of running non-intercooled for a little while, and I live in TX. Were you getting detonation? Heat soak? I actually had my intercooler before I had my turbo, so it was a given that it was going on. I did run without an I/C for about 1 month, but didn't notice any heat soak or detonation. But I also live in the UK where our highs this past summer were in the mid 80's. Big difference compared to TX.

I did notice an improvement in response though. If I had to bet, I would say the improvement was from removing the stock crossover tube that would expand under boost.

bvl

19th December 2002, 11:57

Originally posted by walrond:
bvl - don't forget the new fuel filter. It DOES make a difference.

Walrond - how did the need for an ic become obvious? I've toyed with the idea of running non-intercooled for a little while, and I live in TX. Were you getting detonation? Heat soak? I actually had my intercooler before I had my turbo, so it was a given that it was going on. I did run without an I/C for about 1 month, but didn't notice any heat soak or detonation. But I also live in the UK where our highs this past summer were in the mid 80's. Big difference compared to TX.

I did notice an improvement in response though. If I had to bet, I would say the improvement was from removing the stock crossover tube that would expand under boost.A fuel filter is akin to correct spark plugs...standard maintenance for any car :)

Also: how would you notice detonation outside of blowing a hole in the piston? Above 4000 RPM,
the miata engine is loud enough that you are not going to hear detonation without some sort of microphone assistance (active knock sensor, your own mic, etc...)

Audible knock can be heard below 4000.

I agree that your UK conditions are relatively tame compared to those running non-IC forced induction with temps above 70 and humidity above 70 for 3,6, 9 months a year :)

Still, at higher boost pressures (5+) if you measured your inlet temps before and after the IC install, you probably would be amazed at how
hot the sucker can get :D

- b

Player1111

19th December 2002, 15:01

maitai92

19th December 2002, 15:16

Thank you very much for the replies.
bvl, yes, bipes will be added to my list for sure.
Most likely after my install, i will be at the base boost for a while until i get tired of that extra 30-40 hp..hehehe..I know I will want more later.

Another question,Is IC really necessary for the base kit?

[ 19. December 2002, 14:17: Message edited by: maitai92 ]

cmaclean

19th December 2002, 15:31

Originally posted by maitai92:
Another question,Is IC really necessary for the base kit?I'm afraid so. The intake temps get DANGEROUSLY high without it even at 5-6psi. I would not recommend running a GReddy kit non-intercooled (or any turbo kit for that matter)

Cheers,
...Colin
http://www.cardomain.com/id/cmaclean

pReS999

19th December 2002, 15:51

bvl

19th December 2002, 16:22

Originally posted by maitai92:
Thank you very much for the replies.
bvl, yes, bipes will be added to my list for sure.
Most likely after my install, i will be at the base boost for a while until i get tired of that extra 30-40 hp..hehehe..I know I will want more later.

Another question,Is IC really necessary for the base kit?I would stick with 4.5-5 PSI no IC.

As noted, your geography does favor you a bit as most of the bay area is rather cool. however we know that the weather 5 miles in another direction can be radically different. ONce you hit 80 deg with some humidity...you should start to wonder about what an IC would feel like :D

Ambient temps obviously have some effect on your effective intake temperature, but when intercooled, the effect is really not that much (your intake temps are more just a function of IC efficiency and what boost you run).

In the case of a Greddy, with its stock filter location and all, you are going to be sucking in warm are just about all the time anyway. Just because its 50 deg out and not 80...don't presume your intake temps must be 30 deg lower. Anyone with a Bipes can see what the temp sensor AFM timing pull does, and typically its warm by that air filter in stock form.

- b

[ 19. December 2002, 15:26: Message edited by: bvl ]