I finally see why people weren’t as obsessed with frame rate and resolution before (also LttP: Wind Waker HD) (2024)

Elven_Star said:

Shouldn't CRTs with smaller footprint be somehow possible with today's technology?

It's not something that could really be "fixed" with the traditional CRT design.
The issue is that its electron beam is emitted from a central point at the back of the display, so the thinner you make the TV, the sharper the angle is into the corners of the screen.
A sharper angle means your corners are going to be out of focus relative to the center of the display, and you'll get awful convergence as well (color fringing).
This was already an issue when they moved to flat-faced CRTs, before trying to make them thinner (see: Samsung Slimfit CRTs and their poor reputation).

CRT manufacturing is unlikely to happen unless some billionaire decides to make it their pet project.
All of the factories producing high-end displays were shut down/retooled 15+ years ago. The hardware to manufacture them doesn't really exist any more, and most of the engineers are likely to be retired.
There were also (somewhat overstated) environmental concerns, which would have to be worked around if a new CRT were to be produced today.
It just doesn't seem feasible for a niche enthusiast product. Even many retro gaming enthusiasts probably wouldn't buy a CRT if they were being produced again, due to the size/weight etc.

EvilBoris said:

That's motion resolution , which is a loss of detail in motion.
That's not the psychological effect of motion perception from low framerates, which is usually the concern - hence the parts about framerates variances being just as noticeable on a CRT, infact more noticeable because of the newer instant response of a CRT compared to some modern displays

As with all display technology, motion handling, and perception discussions… it's complicated.
The short answer is that lower image persistence looks smoother, on top of giving you better motion clarity.

There are two main factors in how a display will present motion:

  • Response times.
  • Image persistence.

Response times are how quick a display's pixels are at changing from one frame to another.
Image persistence is how long a display holds each frame on-screen.

  • LCD: Slow response times, High image persistence.
  • OLED: Fast response times, High image persistence.
  • CRT: Fast response times, Low image persistence.

If we alternate bright and dark frames on a display, the characteristics of each might look something like this:

I finally see why people weren’t as obsessed with frame rate and resolution before (also LttP: Wind Waker HD) (1)

With a 60 FPS game, an LCD or OLED are both going to hold each frame on-screen for ~17ms.
But the LCD has slow rise and fall times (plus some overshoot), while the OLED is nearly instantaneous.
Those slow rise/fall times are why LCD tends to smear frames in motion, but also why some people might think it is "smoother" than OLED.

No matter the source frame rate, a CRT is always going to flash the image on-screen for <2ms.
CRTs cannot hold an image on-screen like flat-panel TVs do - they have to draw it again every refresh, even if it has not changed - which is why they flicker.
CRTs typically have very fast rise times, but slower fall times - which helps make the flicker less harsh for any given refresh rate/image persistence.

Black Frame Insertion cuts down the hold times of an LCD or OLED display, and causes it to flicker.
With an LG C1 OLED, the highest level of BFI (Motion Pro) will drop hold times to ~8ms at 60Hz and 4ms at 120Hz.
The CX was a bit different, reducing the hold times to 4ms at both 60Hz and 120Hz (at the cost of being half as bright at 60Hz).

But even though the hold time might be twice as long (or more) compared to a CRT, the flicker is very harsh on an OLED because of the near-instant rise/fall of the response times giving it a square-wave response, rather than an exponential response like the CRT.

And that carries over to 30 FPS gaming.
I don't find that 30 FPS is smoother on LCD compared to OLED, it's just harsher on the OLED because of those response times - particularly in bright, high-contrast scenes.
Even so, I find that the higher contrast and lack of image smearing helps reduce motion sickness for me vs. an LCD.

CRTs at 30 FPS are a whole other story that I don't want to get into, but let's just say that they have their own issues (very sharp motion, but with double-images for 30 FPS at 60Hz).

Dr. Zoidberg said:

The smaller size of the CRT screen likely helps a great deal as well. A choppy framerate is even worse on a large screen that fills more of your FOV.

This is definitely a factor. Image size and brightness have a huge impact on how smooth we perceive motion to be.
I suspect it also plays a role for people that went from a mid-size, mid-range LCD, to a much bigger OLED and find lower frame rates less tolerable.

100mega said:

Wow, I've never really considered this. Very interesting! Also I sure wish we could have seen what SED TVs could have turned into.

SED televisions were fixed-pixel displays that used PWM-driving similar to Plasma TVs, so you could really just think of them as an advanced plasma tv with higher-contrast and faster response times.
They might have been great if they were actually released at that time, but did not have the characteristics of a "flat-panel CRT" that many people dream of.

I finally see why people weren’t as obsessed with frame rate and resolution before (also LttP: Wind Waker HD) (2024)

FAQs

What frame rate is Wind Waker HD Wii U? ›

The overall style of the game just doesn't really fit with it. its going to be 30 fps just like the original...

What resolution is Wind Waker HD Wii U? ›

Being a game for the Wii U, The Wind Waker HD runs at 1080p, compared to the original game's 480p. The remaster uses an enhanced version of the original game's cel-shading, the soft-shading.

Why am I having frame rate issues? ›

Low frames-per-second (FPS) rates or frame rates in games are usually caused by computer hardware not being able to meet a game's system requirements in a given setting. If a device's hardware and a game's requirements are too far apart, a game will refuse to load.

Why does high frame rate movies look weird? ›

Critics of HFR say we're used to the warm, grainy texture of film, which makes us feel like we're entering another world. But HFR movies are so hyper-realistic that we're pointedly aware we are watching a movie. Some scenes can come across "plasticky" or clinical.

How many hours is 100% Wind Waker? ›

When focusing on the main objectives, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker is about 29 Hours in length. If you're a gamer that strives to see all aspects of the game, you are likely to spend around 59½ Hours to obtain 100% completion.

Why is Wind Waker so expensive? ›

Highlights. Rare Zelda games can be valuable, with some fetching prices as high as $7,350. Limited Edition versions of Zelda games, like Wind Waker HD, can demand high prices due to low supply. Not For Resale variants, particularly the demo kiosk versions, are among the rarest and most expensive Zelda games.

Can the Wii U run 1080p? ›

Yes. With the included HDMI cable, Wii U supports HD images of a resolution up to 1080p. Wii software will always be displayed in standard definition (SD), however.

Is Wind Waker coming to Switch? ›

Being able to play The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess on the Nintendo Switch has been the dream of many console owners since its launch, but the smart thing to do at this point is to accept that it's not going to happen.

What is the highest resolution on the Wii? ›

Some Wii software supports a 480p progressive output that displays at an enhanced quality compared to the standard 576i display.

Does wifi affect FPS? ›

We briefly mentioned before that your internet speed and other parts of your streaming setup can affect your frame rate. In order for your video quality to improve with your frame rate, your internet connection and other streaming technology must be capable of streaming at a higher frame rate.

Why is too high FPS bad? ›

Second, high fps can cause more heat and noise from your PC components, which can affect their lifespan and performance. Third, high fps may not be noticeable or beneficial if your monitor's refresh rate is lower than your fps.

What is 1 low FPS? ›

1 % low FPS is the most common solution used in benchmarking to avoid the pitfall of misleading FPS averages. Instead of looking at the average of all frames, it sorts all the frames recorded during the test, then takes the slowest 1 % , and computes the corresponding average.

What frame rate is real life? ›

In short, he sums up: “The human eye does not have a framerate.” But there are some important numbers he wants to talk about. The first one is 10Hz, or 10 frames-per-second. Even before movies became a thing, he explains, psychologists found that 10 to 12 frames is where the phenomenon of apparent motion begins.

Why do old movies look weird in 4K? ›

Because they are grainy, in many cases. This seems to be especially true of movies made in the 1970s, and formats such as 16mm.

Why do movies look good at 24 fps but not games? ›

The simple answer is tradition. We've come to associate the 24 FPS look and its characteristic motion blur with the feel of cinema. While higher FPS could mean smoother visuals, it doesn't look as cinematic as the motion blur and dream-like quality of 24 FPS.

What framerate does the Wii U run at? ›

...and that's how many of their games on the console (in general, both developed and produced) run at 60fps, since the Wii U is very comparable to the PS3 and 360 but with a worse cpu, and those consoles are notorious for running most games barely at 30fps unless they were fighting games or fully 2D.

Is Wind Waker locked at 30FPS? ›

Windwaker HD and Twilight Princess HD were likely locked at 30FPS to prevent problems that would undoubtedly surface by boosting their framerates to 60.

Is Zelda 60fps? ›

The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom

So BoTW and ToTK have mods to run at 60fps. ALBW and Triforce Heros have native 60fps. Skyward Sword HD has native 60fps, there is also that OoT PC port that runs at 60fps.

What is the frame rate of Minecraft Wii U? ›

The Minecraft: Wii U Edition runs at a native resolution of 720p at 60 fps during single player game play.

References

Top Articles
Latest Posts
Recommended Articles
Article information

Author: Geoffrey Lueilwitz

Last Updated:

Views: 5683

Rating: 5 / 5 (60 voted)

Reviews: 83% of readers found this page helpful

Author information

Name: Geoffrey Lueilwitz

Birthday: 1997-03-23

Address: 74183 Thomas Course, Port Micheal, OK 55446-1529

Phone: +13408645881558

Job: Global Representative

Hobby: Sailing, Vehicle restoration, Rowing, Ghost hunting, Scrapbooking, Rugby, Board sports

Introduction: My name is Geoffrey Lueilwitz, I am a zealous, encouraging, sparkling, enchanting, graceful, faithful, nice person who loves writing and wants to share my knowledge and understanding with you.